I think freedom and individual rights are indivisible. We have freedom or we don't. We have only one right, and that's our right to defend ourselves and our property.
Everything derives from this. So it's difficult for me to distinguish between political and economic freedom.
I think what they mean, if they mean anything, is the opposition to measuring the increase of "the good" in a society by the primitive measure of GDP. And that they are against overconsumption. Which relates to.... endless intensification of the economy.
This is honestly part of my frustration with de-growthers generally speaking. They often start with a premise of slowing down carbon emissions, but then they will also say we need to do various things like democratize institutions, decrease income inequality, four day work weeks, MMT, government work programs, and other things that don't really have anything to do with saving the environment.
Erin, thanks for sending this article-- I had not come across it before. It's one of the more well thought out justifications for de-growth that I've seen. I don't entirely get their point on how the obsession with economic growth threatens democracy-- it appears that according to the data, the richest countres in the world are democratic! But I'll plan on doing a deeper dive on this topic one week. Thanks! :D
As for threatening democracy... at this point, I don't take such arguments seriously. All the dogmatists everywhere are constantly claiming this and that "threatens democracy" even in cases when the opposite is clearly true.
I think though that it would be fair to say that "no more econ growth" threatens the systems where the elites grab a huge chunk of the wealth but make sure that the plebes get a growing share.
I think freedom and individual rights are indivisible. We have freedom or we don't. We have only one right, and that's our right to defend ourselves and our property.
Everything derives from this. So it's difficult for me to distinguish between political and economic freedom.
Here is another article on degrowth.
https://www.resilience.org/stories/2024-07-05/democracy-trumped-at-the-limits-to-growth/
I think what they mean, if they mean anything, is the opposition to measuring the increase of "the good" in a society by the primitive measure of GDP. And that they are against overconsumption. Which relates to.... endless intensification of the economy.
Can you comment, Justin?
Is there any sensible definition of degrowth? All I have seen is vague stuff. Like the article by Nate Hagens on Resilience.org.
This is honestly part of my frustration with de-growthers generally speaking. They often start with a premise of slowing down carbon emissions, but then they will also say we need to do various things like democratize institutions, decrease income inequality, four day work weeks, MMT, government work programs, and other things that don't really have anything to do with saving the environment.
Erin, thanks for sending this article-- I had not come across it before. It's one of the more well thought out justifications for de-growth that I've seen. I don't entirely get their point on how the obsession with economic growth threatens democracy-- it appears that according to the data, the richest countres in the world are democratic! But I'll plan on doing a deeper dive on this topic one week. Thanks! :D
You're welcome. :-)
As for threatening democracy... at this point, I don't take such arguments seriously. All the dogmatists everywhere are constantly claiming this and that "threatens democracy" even in cases when the opposite is clearly true.
I think though that it would be fair to say that "no more econ growth" threatens the systems where the elites grab a huge chunk of the wealth but make sure that the plebes get a growing share.